I feel like this really takes away from our country's future. People always blab that our future lies in the children, and I'm so sick of hearing that phrase, even though it's true. Those quoted in the article brought up really good points. A lot of these children don't know another language, another country. America is their home. I feel that these kids grew up here, and even if they were born somewhere else. They also shouldn;t be punished because their parents are illeglal immigrants. The United States has become so obsessed with this "touchy issue" that they're failing to see that we might not be the land of opportunity. They're not giving these people the chance to succeed!! Lately, everything that is proposed that would help poorer families and children just seems to vetoed. It's become such a 'NO' concept.
Sure they know what they don't want, but what is an alternative option? They can't keep saying no to procrastinate on this issue. It needs to be dealt with.
If children are our future, they're taking away a huge chunk of the future population, especially the Southwest. To me, these people are so strong and have been through so much. They have shown success, and robbing them of it makes me angry. I feel like we could learn from these people, and we should let share in our resources and our good fortune.
Well it is hard for me to pick a side on this issue in all honestly. On one hand, i dont want illegal immigrants thinking thst if they are sly and stealthy enough, they can easily just cross the border illegally, knowing and taking advantage of the fact that the govrnment is sympathtic to these immigrants' children and will treat them just the same way as if they were born to a legal immigrant. But at the same time, these are people in desperate need of a chance to make something of themselves, and America seems like the place that is denying them just that by vetoing this bill. I want this country to be the land of oppurtunity, but at the same time i dont want our country to be taken advantage of just ebcause we are kind and sympathetic to the issue.
My first reaction to the bill was that it would be beneficial to our community and to our society. It is a rational and reasonable approach in dealing with an abundance of illegal immigrants who can potentially contribute to society rather than draining the resources of our economy. Through this proposal, the illegal immigrant children would make an important contribution to our workforce that would help us provide for our rapidly expanding population. And by requiring their completion of high school and having “good moral character,” they would help our society and not be a burden. The proposed bill encourages these people to join the military which would also help our country. By providing an opportunity for higher education, the individuals become self sustaining and society ultimately benefits. The guidelines that these children must meet to become a citizen I believe are fair. The plan ensures that the individuals we make legal would not abuse our system.
This is a difficult topic to discuss. Honestly, I didn't really like the bill when I first read this article, because it said that children would be granted a "path" to citizenship if they either completed two years of "higher" education or joined the military. I personally think this is quite a backhanded offering. It's a double-edged sword. First of all, how many immigrants can afford to put their children through higher education? When I think "higher" education, I think of universities and colleges. Many immigrants are far more concerned with feeding their families. So the only other thing they would have been able to do would be to join the military. This, to me, seems like a draft. But it's more unfair than a regular draft: it's taking people who are not even legal citizens and promising them a "path" to citizenship if they fight our wars for us, if they murder and maim for us. That is truly monstrous. Mind you, these are children we are talking about. These are kids that would have had to be resigned instantly to the military.
Yet on the other hand, I am of the belief that immigrants are in need of a bill to allow them citizenship. It's a touchy subject, but I can't help but be heartbroken at the thought of people fleeing from a life to what they hope is the land of opertunity, and being turned down or having to live in fear of being deported. Their children deserve even less to be subjected to a life of poverty and fear. Something must be done.
Phoebe, you bring up a really good point about how these children are basically being drafted. But the bottom line is they are using up our resources at no cost to them. For our country to give them a path to legal citizenship seems awfully generous considering the alternative option of deportation. The discipline learned in the military and the knowledge gained through higher education will only help them be productive, contributing, and self-sustaining members of our society. And their next generation, unlike their parents, will have a much easier life in a country with boundless opportunities.
I am very much in favor of this bill. I think that we need to give these kids of illegal immigrants a chance, and if they are willing to serve in the country's army then they are certainly deserving of a legal status. Lately especially there have been endless complaints about the flow of illegal immigrants into our country. I think that before we complain, though, it is necessary to take into consideration the role of this group. Many of these illegal immigrants are hardworking individuals who come to this country with a goal of working hard and hopefully making a small fortune. If all of these immigrants were to leave, there would be a big toll on our economy if not our daily lives.
I feel that we should not go try to kick out all of the illegal immigrants. They are a crucial part to our economy. If all illegal immigrants were kicked out of the country our economy would take a huge hit. However, it is more important that the government does not ruin the lives of the immigrant's children. I think this bill would be a good idea. I think children who have lived her illegally should not be punished. If a child is raised here they deserve to stay. They should not be ripped from a life they know and sent back to where they will be limited in their opportunities. The United States in the land of opportunity and the illegal immigrant children deserve as much opportunity as we do.
Cary, I agree that this is the land of opportunity but, i dont agree with your thought that immigrants might be sneaky. I do not think that people should be allowed to just come on into this country but, i do think that we should just take care of everyone that is already here
Alison, I disagree, although I thank you for acknowledging my point. You also bring up a good point, but I can't help but feel as though drafting young people to go blow up other people and get blown up themselves and then only promising a "path" to citizenship seems selfish and shady.
On a more general note, wouldn't it be nice if we could figure out a way to make South American countries so attractive that illegal immigrants wouldn't be so desperate to get out of them? We have to realize that immigrants aren't just sneaking over the boarders to show how stealthy they are, or just because they don't want to be bothered with legal documents, but that they're fleeing their country.
firsly, i thought it was suprising that four democrats who would have voted for the bill were absent - where were they? isn't it their duty to vote on important issues, especially when their vote might be as influential as it would have been in the vote for the immigration bill? as for the bill itself however, i am completely for it. as the article said, children completely innocent of breaking any law regarding immigration deserve a chance to become a citizen of the united states. the educated children given the chance to become citizens would bring a positive contribution to the country and those who enlist in the military would also be earning their citizenship. lastly, the senator who said in the article that there are more important issues than immigration to be focusing on right now was wrong. immigration is as important of an issue as any - illigal immigrants flowing into the us are a problem and those already in the us who aren't given a chance to become anything are also contributing little to the welfare of the nation.
phoebe- i disagree that the qualifications the children of immigrants must meet are unjust. the higher education they must persue is not at all beyond their reach - two year community college is free, and most have require nothing of their students other than the completion of highschool - as for the the option of joining the military - the option is certainly not like a draft while they have the option of higher education for two years, and if they chose, they could join a branch of the military like the coast guard, and work for the benefit of the country without actually going into combat
Lian brought up a good point i forgot about earlier... the fact that these immigrants could be fighting for us in the army is a great reason to let them in our country, we provide them oppurtunities and they fight for us, it seems completely just and reasonable to me.
I understand that some senators wouldnt want this bill to be passed because they don't want to encourage more illegal immigrants coming to the us. However, i believe that this bill could have helped us more than it could have hurt us. Because the children of illegal immigrants would have to serve in the army for two years, the government wouldnt have to think of enforcing a draft. Also, there are so many requirements for the children of illegal immmigrants to reveice a citizenship that I don't think that many will be able to receive citizenship. I think congress should have passed this bill. i'm really disappointed that it didnt. --Nina Kim
Allison, I agree with everything you said. You basically said everything i said but worded it a lot better. i think we both agree that this bill would have helped our country more than it would have hurt it. Also, i love how you pointed out that society will ultimately benefit from this bill. Basically, congress made a big mistake by not passing this bill. It would have benefited our country a lot. --Nina Kim
I have to admit, I come to the table with preconcieved notions with regards to this issue. I fail to see the damage that illegal immigrants have on our country. The only argument that I have ever heard is that they are taking american jobs, and that they don't pay taxes. First, they often DO pay taxes, even though the IRS has virtually no way of making them, and secondly, the jobs they take are generally underpayed menial labor that few of today's "americans" would take. Furthermore, they either spend what little money they make in America, furthering the economy and supporting traditionally better professions, or they send it to their family, so that they can eventually come to America and benefit the economy. They are indeed an increasingly driving force in our economy. The fact is, since they can be deported if they act up or unionize to gain minimum wage, which we believe EVERY american is entitled to, they are in a position without leverage and inevitably they are exploited and pushed to the lowest levels of society, similarly to the proletariat during the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century. Giving citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants will put an end to this vicious cycle, allowing immigrants far more leverage and making sure the oppressive owners of the means of production can no longer work them for next to nothing- with citizenship comes leverage. Since they, in every meaning of the word, are american, and those given citizenship may have served in the army, the epitome of being american, they are fully entitled to these benefits. There is no reason these recent immigrants should be held below the rest of us, only perhaps 20th generation or less.
Phoebe, I think you make an excellent point. I would actually like to amend my earlier statement. In the face of the consideration that this is the equivalent of a draft, I am forced to look at it a second time. In truth, this bill really does seem a double edged sword. Still, I feel that this is at least a beginning, and the concept of a higher education is rather silly. However, I would like to point out that the door to access universities is not fully shut. For instance, in California, the top 10% of every class is guaranteed admission to a UC, complete with financial aid. Nevertheless, this appears to be a miniscule benefit, and one that could only affect a small number of people. In the end, I still feel that I have to support the bill- the concept of going to battle as a path to citizenship is hardly a new one (see Heinlein, Starship Troopers, where he argues that a person proves their worth and their responsibility through their personal commitment), and even if I don't agree that it is a fair requirement personally, it is better than living in fear for your entire life of being deported to some country that you may never have visited.
I feel that this bill would have been very beneficial to both America as a whole, and the many illegal immigrants already living in the United States. The bill would have bolstered the recruitment for the army, which is badly needed, as well as contributing to our revenue. Opponents of this bill suggest that it will give illegal immigrants cause to bring their children to America. In reality, we have already seen that we haven't been able to deter illegal immigration, so why not legalize them so that they can contribute taxes to our government.
Phoebe, I think you made an excellent point. [in fact, i'm not sure i can express it excellentness. excellence. yes that.] You really got down to the source of the problem. Why are so many citizens in South and Central America desperate to come to the US. You're right: they ARE fleeing from their country, and what we should try to do is help that problem. When I think about it, I feel that people fleeing to our country is a runaway solution, in that if everyone runs to our country, we'll be over populated [which was mentioned], and their economy will suffer. Can we find a way to help their country? Can we help boost their economy? Can we up their standard of living?
In a shameless plug, check out kiva.org Kiva is an organization that loans money to family businesses in less developed countries. 98% of loans are paid back, which shows hwo the loan can help their small business. And instead of merely pouring money, Kiva tries to find a solution. And once the loan is paid back, you can loan it again to another person. Isn't this better than just dumping money into under developed countries, where the money is only a temporary solution?
I disagree with the fact that they did agree to this, yes it may have attracted some illegal immigrents to try and cross the border I think it is easier to "close" the borders and try and come to common terms with the illegal immigrents because of their impact on our economy, they are the majority of the people working our cheap labor. However I disagree with the lack of education that was proposed....2 years is veryinsufficient and it should be just as that of citizens which even so rarely brings a decent amount of income to a family.
I also agree with you in that this law bill does remind me a little of a draft. I think that we must not forget though that the youth are after all the ones who CHOSE to go serve in the army. They are not actually forced (although I know that a legal status in this country is very tempting). All in all, although this proposal might be sort of a "double ended sword" I very much like the spirit of the law behind it. Illegal immigrants as a whole only benefit our country, and I think that they should be supported especially if they are willing to perform such noble deeds such as serve in the army of a country they do not posess citizenship.
I agree with what Angela was saying about the future in the kids thing. Many of my family friends and stuff beign from hispanic descent they find some sort of honor and pride in having their kids born in the country they were born although I dont get why they would deny their kids the rights and opportunites of citizens I am noone to judge them however as a result of that some of the kids have not been able to continue their education due to them being illegal immigrants which I think should be changed because eve so they have spent the majority of their lives in the US and as a result they should be able to gain some rights without it being such a hastle
I think there are both bad and good sides to this bill. First the good. I like how we're encouraging those who would like to gain citizenship to be productive parts of society. I like how it encourages them to either get a higher education or help out our military. As a reward for their contributions to society, they have an easier path to citizenship. Then again, i think it's weird because it puts some pressure on kids to enlist in the military. I see army veterans and some of their minds are just all screwed up because of all of the horrible things they saw while in service. i think it's wrong to pressure a kid into experiencing the horrific events that can occur while serving in the military.
I feel that although this could affect us now, in the long run we might benefit from it. But we are not the only country facing these issues. In France, you are not an actuall citizen unless your grandparents and parents and yourself are born in France. There are other ways around such restrictions as the issue our Senate is facing now. If you want to be a citizen of France for instance, you must live there, then you may apply. But few actually recieve the citizenship unless France believes that person will in some way or another help France. A famous writer who i don't know the name of lived in France for only 5 years, but because he was a writer and contributed to France in some way, they granted his citizenship whereas others, whom have lived in France for over 20 years would still be rejected. Furthermore, there is really no right or wrong in this situation. If the Senate had passed the law, then the threat of a massive amount of illegal immigrants from all over will try and come to the US. Where as if you reject the law, such as they did, you are simply turning on people whom are willing to serve for the country they wish to be a citizen of and in the end most likely deserve it. In the end, I really can't choose a side, and I believe this issue, has been and will continue to be an ongoing debate.
- Johnny I disagree with you somewhat, I think that having potential citizens serve their country is a good test/idea. It will give them the chance to show that they do care about this country. And although I agree that it is wrong to pressure a kid into the army, If they want to be a citizen, they will have to serve the country, again to prove their loyalty.
I find it very annoying that the Senate is incapable of passing any sort of bill regarding immigration. Being in AP Environmental Science, i see the negative effects on our country due to immigration. Our country is being overpopulated and our cities overcrowded. This is causing concentrated pollution and smog. I did like the comment that it is impossible to tell the difference between illegal immgrants and citizens. I feel like thee should be a sort of citizenship granted to the people here. I then think that the senate needs to tighten up the borders. What is going to stop all these immigrants from continuing to..obviously right now, nothing. So something needs to be done. I really find that this is a very important issue that should've been adressed months, maybe years ago.
Phoebe- You aid somethign that just struck somethign within me. That the immigants come here seeking Opportunity and Freedom, and im pretty sure all the bills proposed have been tryig to fix the problem by securing the borders or making the current immigrants citizens. But i just got an idea. What if we passed a bill to make The Central and Southern American Countries better. I'm not talking about Iraq sorto f project (b/c it's not a war-torn country (if Iraq was))...but maybe spend money to do some projects there. clean it up, build houses, etc. Thigns to make those areas better and allow for less reasons for immigration.
28 comments:
I feel like this really takes away from our country's future. People always blab that our future lies in the children, and I'm so sick of hearing that phrase, even though it's true. Those quoted in the article brought up really good points. A lot of these children don't know another language, another country. America is their home. I feel that these kids grew up here, and even if they were born somewhere else. They also shouldn;t be punished because their parents are illeglal immigrants. The United States has become so obsessed with this "touchy issue" that they're failing to see that we might not be the land of opportunity. They're not giving these people the chance to succeed!! Lately, everything that is proposed that would help poorer families and children just seems to vetoed. It's become such a 'NO' concept.
Sure they know what they don't want, but what is an alternative option? They can't keep saying no to procrastinate on this issue. It needs to be dealt with.
If children are our future, they're taking away a huge chunk of the future population, especially the Southwest. To me, these people are so strong and have been through so much. They have shown success, and robbing them of it makes me angry. I feel like we could learn from these people, and we should let share in our resources and our good fortune.
Well it is hard for me to pick a side on this issue in all honestly. On one hand, i dont want illegal immigrants thinking thst if they are sly and stealthy enough, they can easily just cross the border illegally, knowing and taking advantage of the fact that the govrnment is sympathtic to these immigrants' children and will treat them just the same way as if they were born to a legal immigrant. But at the same time, these are people in desperate need of a chance to make something of themselves, and America seems like the place that is denying them just that by vetoing this bill. I want this country to be the land of oppurtunity, but at the same time i dont want our country to be taken advantage of just ebcause we are kind and sympathetic to the issue.
My first reaction to the bill was that it would be beneficial to our community and to our society. It is a rational and reasonable approach in dealing with an abundance of illegal immigrants who can potentially contribute to society rather than draining the resources of our economy. Through this proposal, the illegal immigrant children would make an important contribution to our workforce that would help us provide for our rapidly expanding population. And by requiring their completion of high school and having “good moral character,” they would help our society and not be a burden. The proposed bill encourages these people to join the military which would also help our country. By providing an opportunity for higher education, the individuals become self sustaining and society ultimately benefits. The guidelines that these children must meet to become a citizen I believe are fair. The plan ensures that the individuals we make legal would not abuse our system.
This is a difficult topic to discuss. Honestly, I didn't really like the bill when I first read this article, because it said that children would be granted a "path" to citizenship if they either completed two years of "higher" education or joined the military. I personally think this is quite a backhanded offering. It's a double-edged sword. First of all, how many immigrants can afford to put their children through higher education? When I think "higher" education, I think of universities and colleges. Many immigrants are far more concerned with feeding their families. So the only other thing they would have been able to do would be to join the military. This, to me, seems like a draft. But it's more unfair than a regular draft: it's taking people who are not even legal citizens and promising them a "path" to citizenship if they fight our wars for us, if they murder and maim for us. That is truly monstrous. Mind you, these are children we are talking about. These are kids that would have had to be resigned instantly to the military.
Yet on the other hand, I am of the belief that immigrants are in need of a bill to allow them citizenship. It's a touchy subject, but I can't help but be heartbroken at the thought of people fleeing from a life to what they hope is the land of opertunity, and being turned down or having to live in fear of being deported. Their children deserve even less to be subjected to a life of poverty and fear. Something must be done.
Phoebe, you bring up a really good point about how these children are basically being drafted. But the bottom line is they are using up our resources at no cost to them. For our country to give them a path to legal citizenship seems awfully generous considering the alternative option of deportation. The discipline learned in the military and the knowledge gained through higher education will only help them be productive, contributing, and self-sustaining members of our society. And their next generation, unlike their parents, will have a much easier life in a country with boundless opportunities.
I am very much in favor of this bill. I think that we need to give these kids of illegal immigrants a chance, and if they are willing to serve in the country's army then they are certainly deserving of a legal status. Lately especially there have been endless complaints about the flow of illegal immigrants into our country. I think that before we complain, though, it is necessary to take into consideration the role of this group. Many of these illegal immigrants are hardworking individuals who come to this country with a goal of working hard and hopefully making a small fortune. If all of these immigrants were to leave, there would be a big toll on our economy if not our daily lives.
I feel that we should not go try to kick out all of the illegal immigrants. They are a crucial part to our economy. If all illegal immigrants were kicked out of the country our economy would take a huge hit. However, it is more important that the government does not ruin the lives of the immigrant's children. I think this bill would be a good idea. I think children who have lived her illegally should not be punished. If a child is raised here they deserve to stay. They should not be ripped from a life they know and sent back to where they will be limited in their opportunities. The United States in the land of opportunity and the illegal immigrant children deserve as much opportunity as we do.
Cary,
I agree that this is the land of opportunity but, i dont agree with your thought that immigrants might be sneaky. I do not think that people should be allowed to just come on into this country but, i do think that we should just take care of everyone that is already here
Alison, I disagree, although I thank you for acknowledging my point. You also bring up a good point, but I can't help but feel as though drafting young people to go blow up other people and get blown up themselves and then only promising a "path" to citizenship seems selfish and shady.
On a more general note, wouldn't it be nice if we could figure out a way to make South American countries so attractive that illegal immigrants wouldn't be so desperate to get out of them? We have to realize that immigrants aren't just sneaking over the boarders to show how stealthy they are, or just because they don't want to be bothered with legal documents, but that they're fleeing their country.
firsly, i thought it was suprising that four democrats who would have voted for the bill were absent - where were they? isn't it their duty to vote on important issues, especially when their vote might be as influential as it would have been in the vote for the immigration bill? as for the bill itself however, i am completely for it. as the article said, children completely innocent of breaking any law regarding immigration deserve a chance to become a citizen of the united states. the educated children given the chance to become citizens would bring a positive contribution to the country and those who enlist in the military would also be earning their citizenship. lastly, the senator who said in the article that there are more important issues than immigration to be focusing on right now was wrong. immigration is as important of an issue as any - illigal immigrants flowing into the us are a problem and those already in the us who aren't given a chance to become anything are also contributing little to the welfare of the nation.
phoebe-
i disagree that the qualifications the children of immigrants must meet are unjust. the higher education they must persue is not at all beyond their reach - two year community college is free, and most have require nothing of their students other than the completion of highschool - as for the the option of joining the military - the option is certainly not like a draft while they have the option of higher education for two years, and if they chose, they could join a branch of the military like the coast guard, and work for the benefit of the country without actually going into combat
Lian brought up a good point i forgot about earlier... the fact that these immigrants could be fighting for us in the army is a great reason to let them in our country, we provide them oppurtunities and they fight for us, it seems completely just and reasonable to me.
I understand that some senators wouldnt want this bill to be passed because they don't want to encourage more illegal immigrants coming to the us. However, i believe that this bill could have helped us more than it could have hurt us. Because the children of illegal immigrants would have to serve in the army for two years, the government wouldnt have to think of enforcing a draft. Also, there are so many requirements for the children of illegal immmigrants to reveice a citizenship that I don't think that many will be able to receive citizenship. I think congress should have passed this bill. i'm really disappointed that it didnt.
--Nina Kim
Allison,
I agree with everything you said. You basically said everything i said but worded it a lot better. i think we both agree that this bill would have helped our country more than it would have hurt it. Also, i love how you pointed out that society will ultimately benefit from this bill. Basically, congress made a big mistake by not passing this bill. It would have benefited our country a lot.
--Nina Kim
I have to admit, I come to the table with preconcieved notions with regards to this issue. I fail to see the damage that illegal immigrants have on our country. The only argument that I have ever heard is that they are taking american jobs, and that they don't pay taxes. First, they often DO pay taxes, even though the IRS has virtually no way of making them, and secondly, the jobs they take are generally underpayed menial labor that few of today's "americans" would take. Furthermore, they either spend what little money they make in America, furthering the economy and supporting traditionally better professions, or they send it to their family, so that they can eventually come to America and benefit the economy. They are indeed an increasingly driving force in our economy. The fact is, since they can be deported if they act up or unionize to gain minimum wage, which we believe EVERY american is entitled to, they are in a position without leverage and inevitably they are exploited and pushed to the lowest levels of society, similarly to the proletariat during the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century. Giving citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants will put an end to this vicious cycle, allowing immigrants far more leverage and making sure the oppressive owners of the means of production can no longer work them for next to nothing- with citizenship comes leverage. Since they, in every meaning of the word, are american, and those given citizenship may have served in the army, the epitome of being american, they are fully entitled to these benefits. There is no reason these recent immigrants should be held below the rest of us, only perhaps 20th generation or less.
Phoebe,
I think you make an excellent point. I would actually like to amend my earlier statement. In the face of the consideration that this is the equivalent of a draft, I am forced to look at it a second time. In truth, this bill really does seem a double edged sword. Still, I feel that this is at least a beginning, and the concept of a higher education is rather silly. However, I would like to point out that the door to access universities is not fully shut. For instance, in California, the top 10% of every class is guaranteed admission to a UC, complete with financial aid. Nevertheless, this appears to be a miniscule benefit, and one that could only affect a small number of people. In the end, I still feel that I have to support the bill- the concept of going to battle as a path to citizenship is hardly a new one (see Heinlein, Starship Troopers, where he argues that a person proves their worth and their responsibility through their personal commitment), and even if I don't agree that it is a fair requirement personally, it is better than living in fear for your entire life of being deported to some country that you may never have visited.
I feel that this bill would have been very beneficial to both America as a whole, and the many illegal immigrants already living in the United States. The bill would have bolstered the recruitment for the army, which is badly needed, as well as contributing to our revenue. Opponents of this bill suggest that it will give illegal immigrants cause to bring their children to America. In reality, we have already seen that we haven't been able to deter illegal immigration, so why not legalize them so that they can contribute taxes to our government.
Phoebe, I think you made an excellent point. [in fact, i'm not sure i can express it excellentness. excellence. yes that.] You really got down to the source of the problem. Why are so many citizens in South and Central America desperate to come to the US. You're right: they ARE fleeing from their country, and what we should try to do is help that problem.
When I think about it, I feel that people fleeing to our country is a runaway solution, in that if everyone runs to our country, we'll be over populated [which was mentioned], and their economy will suffer.
Can we find a way to help their country? Can we help boost their economy? Can we up their standard of living?
In a shameless plug, check out kiva.org
Kiva is an organization that loans money to family businesses in less developed countries. 98% of loans are paid back, which shows hwo the loan can help their small business. And instead of merely pouring money, Kiva tries to find a solution. And once the loan is paid back, you can loan it again to another person. Isn't this better than just dumping money into under developed countries, where the money is only a temporary solution?
I disagree with the fact that they did agree to this, yes it may have attracted some illegal immigrents to try and cross the border I think it is easier to "close" the borders and try and come to common terms with the illegal immigrents because of their impact on our economy, they are the majority of the people working our cheap labor. However I disagree with the lack of education that was proposed....2 years is veryinsufficient and it should be just as that of citizens which even so rarely brings a decent amount of income to a family.
Juan
Phoebe,
I also agree with you in that this law bill does remind me a little of a draft. I think that we must not forget though that the youth are after all the ones who CHOSE to go serve in the army. They are not actually forced (although I know that a legal status in this country is very tempting). All in all, although this proposal might be sort of a "double ended sword" I very much like the spirit of the law behind it. Illegal immigrants as a whole only benefit our country, and I think that they should be supported especially if they are willing to perform such noble deeds such as serve in the army of a country they do not posess citizenship.
I agree with what Angela was saying about the future in the kids thing. Many of my family friends and stuff beign from hispanic descent they find some sort of honor and pride in having their kids born in the country they were born although I dont get why they would deny their kids the rights and opportunites of citizens I am noone to judge them however as a result of that some of the kids have not been able to continue their education due to them being illegal immigrants which I think should be changed because eve so they have spent the majority of their lives in the US and as a result they should be able to gain some rights without it being such a hastle
I think there are both bad and good sides to this bill. First the good. I like how we're encouraging those who would like to gain citizenship to be productive parts of society. I like how it encourages them to either get a higher education or help out our military. As a reward for their contributions to society, they have an easier path to citizenship. Then again, i think it's weird because it puts some pressure on kids to enlist in the military. I see army veterans and some of their minds are just all screwed up because of all of the horrible things they saw while in service. i think it's wrong to pressure a kid into experiencing the horrific events that can occur while serving in the military.
Jonny
I feel that although this could affect us now, in the long run we might benefit from it. But we are not the only country facing these issues. In France, you are not an actuall citizen unless your grandparents and parents and yourself are born in France. There are other ways around such restrictions as the issue our Senate is facing now. If you want to be a citizen of France for instance, you must live there, then you may apply. But few actually recieve the citizenship unless France believes that person will in some way or another help France. A famous writer who i don't know the name of lived in France for only 5 years, but because he was a writer and contributed to France in some way, they granted his citizenship whereas others, whom have lived in France for over 20 years would still be rejected. Furthermore, there is really no right or wrong in this situation. If the Senate had passed the law, then the threat of a massive amount of illegal immigrants from all over will try and come to the US. Where as if you reject the law, such as they did, you are simply turning on people whom are willing to serve for the country they wish to be a citizen of and in the end most likely deserve it. In the end, I really can't choose a side, and I believe this issue, has been and will continue to be an ongoing debate.
- Johnny I disagree with you somewhat, I think that having potential citizens serve their country is a good test/idea. It will give them the chance to show that they do care about this country. And although I agree that it is wrong to pressure a kid into the army, If they want to be a citizen, they will have to serve the country, again to prove their loyalty.
Sorry i forgot to post..but heres mine late..
I find it very annoying that the Senate is incapable of passing any sort of bill regarding immigration. Being in AP Environmental Science, i see the negative effects on our country due to immigration. Our country is being overpopulated and our cities overcrowded. This is causing concentrated pollution and smog. I did like the comment that it is impossible to tell the difference between illegal immgrants and citizens. I feel like thee should be a sort of citizenship granted to the people here. I then think that the senate needs to tighten up the borders. What is going to stop all these immigrants from continuing to..obviously right now, nothing. So something needs to be done.
I really find that this is a very important issue that should've been adressed months, maybe years ago.
-NICK BERMAN
Phoebe-
You aid somethign that just struck somethign within me. That the immigants come here seeking Opportunity and Freedom, and im pretty sure all the bills proposed have been tryig to fix the problem by securing the borders or making the current immigrants citizens. But i just got an idea. What if we passed a bill to make The Central and Southern American Countries better. I'm not talking about Iraq sorto f project (b/c it's not a war-torn country (if Iraq was))...but maybe spend money to do some projects there. clean it up, build houses, etc. Thigns to make those areas better and allow for less reasons for immigration.
-Nick
sorry said not aid...
nick
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